Wednesday, October 03, 2007

Back from Mt. Lebanon

Two years ago, I took Pittsblog content related to my Pittsburgh suburb, Mt. Lebanon, and opened a separate blog: Blog-Lebo. Today, I posted a slightly different version of this post at Blog-Lebo. I was asked to remove it from that space. I am reproducing it, edited and extended, below.

A recent post on Blog-Lebo opened a conversation about a walking path in my neighborhood. From the post and the comments, the location of the path became clear, along with the identities of the neighbors whose landscaping project threatened to cut off access to it.

A lively comment thread ensued. Among the facts that emerged on that thread were that the deed to the property in question does not refer to that walking path, but that prior deeds to that same parcel do refer to some sort of easement or interest. (I've seen the deeds myself; you could, too, if you searched the Allegheny County Recorder's website.) I do not know why the more recent deed omits reference to an earlier recorded interest. There are a variety of possible explanations, some of which involve perfectly legitimate transactions. The discrepancy is immediately obvious, however, to anyone who saw the earlier deeds.

The owners of the property apparently did not like the attention. This afternoon, the three co-authors of the blog (for I had enlisted two others to post with me) received a strongly worded letter from their lawyer, Arthur H. Stroyd of Del Sole Cavanaugh Stroyd, a little Downtown law firm, threatening us with unspecified legal action if we don't take down the post. Mr. Stroyd is the father of one of the property owners, and the family as a whole is, in my understanding, a long-standing, highly regarded, and influential Mt. Lebanon family. The entirety of the letter is marked "NOT FOR PUBLICATION," so I won't post the whole thing here, even though that legend is pretty dubious, in my opinion, both as a matter of law and as a matter of legal ethics. But here is a key passage, which I reproduce as it obviously bears on a question of public interest: Will Blog-Lebo continue, or will we shut it down?

The blog entry . . . and the comments posted in response thereto are predicated upon, and littered with, self-interested untruths, lies, and falsities that are too numerous to list in this letter. As a result, this letter is limited in scope to dealing with the obviously libelous information that directly impacts [the property owner's] professional reputation.


The entry on the path has been removed. Along with the post, the comments have disappeared as well. I wish the property owners well on their search for peace in their backyard, and in Mt. Lebanon.

The letter asks for some things that will not be provided. It asks for an acknowledgement that the post has been removed because it contained an abundance of false information about the parcel and the people who live there. The post did not contain an abundance of false information about anyone or anyplace; it contained a lively and civil conversation among neighbors about a matter of neighborhood -- and therefore public -- interest. If anyone has a claim to be offended by attacks on their personal or professional reputation, it's me: Some of the commenters all but accused me of being a Communist! And the letter demands that there be no further blog-based discussion of the property. That's a tough one; if the mainstream media pick up the story -- as it did not long ago in connection with a different walking path in Mt. Lebanon, near Foster School -- then our blog practice ordinarily would be to post a link to that news story.

It should be clear that I regard the letter that we received as legally and factually baseless. It is a transparent and cynical attempt to discourage legitimate public discussion of a topic of legitimate public interest. Acceding to these sorts of things is an example of the "chilling effects" that First Amendment lawyers worry so much about, and that anyone who cares about meaningful discussion of the future of our community also should worry about. And yet, for all of that, I have no time or energy to deal further with the mess. Removing the post acknowledges only that this is the fastest and cheapest way to respond to the demand.

Finally, I meant what I said above about whether Blog-Lebo should survive or disappear. We three authors chatted occasionally about the fact that various officials in Mt. Lebanon apparently regard the blog as a purveyor of rumor and innuendo -- or at least of information that runs contrary to the official line of the Municipality of Mt. Lebanon, usually as expressed in the official town magazine. I can handle the occasional irritated public official. When one neighbor threatens to sue another neighbor over public discussion of neighborhood matters, a line has been crossed. I'm not leaving Mt. Lebanon. But I may relocate to a different part of cyberspace, where more is at stake, and the skin is thicker.


The existing Blog-Lebo will remain in place, sans the post that triggered this episode. But there will be no further posts there. Pittsblog, please welcome Mt. Lebanon back to this space.

47 comments:

gina said...

Mike, I am at a loss for words. Blog-Lebo was a service to the community and I am sad for its loss.

Anonymous said...

How sad that you are leaving us!

It seems to me like the naysayers won and again, the little people--- whose opinions are supposed to matter to the naysayers, once again lost.

I will truly miss your insight and humor on subjects that effect our community.

Farwell and hope to see catch you in another relm!

Bill Matthews said...

Unbelievable!!!

Mike, Joe, Jefferson and Commenters (anonymous and not) thanks for the spirited interest in our Community.

Tim Nolan said...

OUTRAGEOUS! Blogs are forums for open discussion. I fail to see how anything in that post infringed upon the rights of the unnamed parties in question.

I found Blog Lebo to be a terrific resource. I hope that we will see it's return very soon.

Anonymous said...

Ok, I go back to my books by candlelight!- First no Tv because of the lack of anything interesting, then no radio because all nighttime talk is syndicated and now no LEBO- BLOG. all because of some Daddy lawyer! Didn't someone in Henry VI utter "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" They can be a dispictable group of humans.

Anonymous said...

I'm at a loss for words too. Although personal time constraints prevented me from being a regular Lebo Blogger I checked the site daily for news and commentary. Never met any of the bloggers in person (except recognized an old classmate)but saw their names and always looked forward to their take on the topic of the day. Putting my own lawyer hat on its a wonder what the old send 'em a daunting letter on letterhead routine will do. *sigh* I hope you will reconsider.

As a stop gap, we should form a lebo yahoo discussion group. We can make it private (or not) that way we can still talk about lebo, tif, local business practices, so called inappropriately dressed teens at football games and yes pathway disputes etc as a group. Not the same community service Blog Lebo provided but it will give us a way to communicate??

Please reconsider Mike!

Anonymous said...

Typical Mt. Lebanon...

Bill Matthews said...

How can we contribute to the Blog-Lebo Legal Defense Fund? More later ...

Anonymous said...

Well if this isn't a reflection of the state of our society, nothing is. The blog certainly allowed for an interesting exchange of ideas. Too bad you shut down before the school board and commissioners election took place!

Anonymous said...

Mike,
Although I didn't comment frequently, I lurked daily to get my fix. And I often referred to your blog in my conversations with others. Blog-Lebo was a wonderful place to discuss the good, the bad and the ugly. I too hope you will re-consider - we'll take up a collection for your legal fees :)
--PTA Mom

Anonymous said...

First, I love your labels on this post.

Second, these owners had to be aware of the path prior to purchase, probably bought the house at a reduced market value due to the presence of the path, and now lawyer-up to profit from the excluding the public from what the public owns. The erosion of decency continues.

Third, with Blog Lebo gone, I will get more done at work. Thanks for the insight into a community in transition.

James Fraasch said...

Mike,

I'd urge you to reconsider as well, however, you seem as if your mind is made up.

Your blog was/is the best place for news about our community and its opinions, hand down. You don't seem to be the type to back down from a fight so I have to guess that your reasons for shutting down go beyond simply this letter.

I will follow you on the Pittsblog and hope to be able to recapture some of your opinion/advice/humor there.

Best wishes whatever you decide to do.

James Fraasch

Anonymous said...

Thin skinned indeed.

So how does one find out exactly who these people are so that they can be properly ostracized?

Sorry, not sure if this blog is G-rated, but only one word I can think of applies here: dickheads.

Anonymous said...

Those lawyer jerks should be run out of town for their pathetic threats. The great people of Mt. Lebo don't deserve to have those types in their community.

Anonymous said...

Mike, this is so sad to hear. Hopefully someone else can take over for you and create another Mt. Lebo blog.

disq said...

Please do not end Blog-Lebo's life. I am a recent graduate from the University of Pittsburgh in engineering. Mt. Lebo is a community that I have been considering moving to for months. I am a Bethel Park resident. If you really look at the city and its communities, Mt. Lebo offers so many amenities that are unmatched. It is interesting to see so many people quickly respond to something undesirable in their community. I think this only shows that Mt. Lebo is composed of members that actually care about the Community. While I was at school in Oakland I lived on Atwood Street. Trash, dangerously uneven sidewalks, noise, unsafe structures, and crime were all treated as simply, "the way it is". For a University, this is simply unacceptable. The path issue demonstrates how caring and outstanding Mt. Lebo really is. Can Mt. Lebo education be improved? Are new businesses coming to the community? Is there no more crime? Are traffic laws tough enough to protect Mt. Lebo sidewalks? Should walking paths be protected, constructed, enforced?

Anonymous said...

This is very sad and disturbing.
(Will I get sued for asking the neighborhood kids to soap the path people's windows?)

The Lebo Blog and its bloggers will be missed!

Anonymous said...

Wow...sounds like something out of a bad 80's tv show.I have grown up, lived, worked, played and celebrated Mt Lebo. I have pride, and every story I hear, from the "real" Mt Lebo chips away from that. It seems that some of the citizens of Mt. Lebanon have a "my sh*t don't stink" mentality (forgive my french). As a student I saw this attitude in our schools, as a resident I felt it in my neighborhood and as a businessman I was ashamed of that same attitude in meetings and networking groups. Why must the "privileged" be soo pompous. Why is it all about "me" now. 50 years ago this would have been settled between friends with food, today lawyers and slander? I write alot of press about technology and people, I credit my knowledge and business savvy with being "privileged" enough to grow up safe, educated and with good morals and values. Mt. Lebanonite's as a mass are great communal people, let's not let a couple of *@#$% change the worlds perception of that. I will always have a comment or excerpt to quote and share check me out @ blog.pghpunch.com....thanks Go Blue Devil Football!!

Anonymous said...

you people need something better to do with your time than to send your children protest thier right to someone else's private property. think darfur. think global warming. or maybe, just maybe, give your children a book. geeze.

Anonymous said...

Mike,

First, the fact that it takes so much time and money to defend yourself against meritless claims and accusations is indeed an unfortunate reality of our legal system. Perhaps more unfortunate is the fact that there are lawyers who feed off of this "loophole" in the system.

Second, I agree with the prior comment that this is - unfortunately - typical Mt. Lebanon. If someone pisses you off, or slightly rubs you the wrong way, lawyer up! Oddly, however, the post that generated the debate did not mention any names, addresses or other personal information about the residents. Furthermore, it was not the least bit derogatory or attacking. Frankly, it could have been a hypothetical. It seems to me that the best plan of attack would have been for the residents and the lawyer to just shut up and let the sleeping dog lie. Now they have created a firestorm of a different proportion.

Perhaps the irony of it all is that if the lawyer's daughter is the homeowner in question, then her mother is Susan Morgans, the Editor in Chief of the Mt. Lebanon Magazine and, get this, Mt. Lebanon's Public Information Officer. I wonder if this whole debate and now the unplugging of Blog Lebo is newsworthy enough for the Mt. Lebanon magazine, or better yet, whether it is valuable "public information".

Third, deep down I'm sure that the West Coast academic rebel in you is getting some pleasure out of being shut down by "The Man". Come on, admit it. However, I also feel in my heart of hearts that the wily law professor has plenty of resources at the ready to give this the old college try. To paraphrase one of your comments on the subject post, "The law isn't what Ty Webb [or Art Stroyd] say it is, it's what we say it is."

Plus, you're in a slightly different spot than the "little guy" referenced earlier in this already lengthy comment. You have a huge law library, eager law students, intelligent colleagues all of whom could aid in the defense of your blog. Heck, you could make it an assignment. Don't give up so easily!

And finally Mike, if you do decide to stay offline, please know that your site was a marvelous resource for a community that loves - above all things - to hear itself talk. I hope that it was equally successful in encouraging a few more do-ers, but if nothing else it gave us all a microphone.

Thanks Mike.

Anonymous said...

If the comments to the first blog were similar to the comments on this blog (name-calling and threats of vandalism) I certainly don't blame these people for asking Blog Lebo to remove the comments.

You have a responsibility as a blogger to monitor these comments. I would have expected more from you. I guess that the name calling and rallying against these people was your intention all along, in that you felt the need to issue this post. It is pretty juvinile and certainly not reflective of an intelligent discourse.

Andy Reinhart said...

Gentlemen:



As a Mt. Lebanon resident, attorney and candidate for Mt. Lebanon Commission, I truly am saddened by the recent events that have forced your decision to discontinue the posts at Blog-Lebo. I visited the site daily and found it a tremendous resource for information about our community. I always came away having learned something about MTL, and believe that you did a great job moderating the discussions, encouraging signed comments, and maintaining civility. You provided a service that will be difficult to replace. I hope you reconsider your decision, but in any event I thank you for your efforts and wish you well in the future.

Anonymous said...

For those of you in search of a new Lebo blog fix, I would give you the following:

http://www.topix.net/city/mount-lebanon-pa

Topix.net was founded by Mt. Lebanon natives Mike Markson, Tom Markson, Rich Skrenta (the subject of a previous blog lebo post) and Bob Truel. It is a good source for Lebo and Pittsburgh news and the blog could be fun if the Lebo bloggers shifted over.

Also, is there anyone out there that would want to be the editor? Just sign up at the link above and have at it!! Anyone can do it.

Jim Russell said...

Reading all of these comments, I would suggest that Blog-Lebo lives on... right here. I hope that many of you will take part in the regional discussions we have here.

Jeff_Grubb said...

Mike, Jefferson, Joe,

Thank you for a wonderful blog. I am in the Seattle area, but tuned in regularly to get a feeling for what was happening in my home town. I provided an obit for the site here.

Don't stop trying to make things better.

Anonymous said...

Mike, I'm reasonably sure that you are aware that Section 230 of Title 47 of the United States Code (47 USC § 230) provides bloggers, like you, protection against legal claims arising from hosting information written by third parties. (See the EFF's Bloggers' FAQ for more.) So I'm posting this to make sure that other readers know the same and can understand the true nature of the letter you received.

Like so many others who have posted here, I want to thank you for your contributions to our community. Blog-Lebo has been one of the best ways for my family to learn about what's really happening in Mt. Lebanon. Thank you!

I will be saddened if the chilling effects of the letter you received result in the closing of our wonderful community gathering place. I am hoping, therefore, that the rumors of Blog-Lebo's demise will turn out to have been exaggerated. ;-)

Cheers. —Tom

Mike Madison said...

A couple of explanations and amendments:

First, thanks to all for your comments and support of Blog-Lebo. Any community would be lucky to have citizens who care as passionately about their town as Mt. Lebanites care about Lebo. There's the lemonade here, if anyone is wondering what I'm thinking these days after squeezing a bagful of lemons.

Second, Tom is right: Section 230 of the CDA lets me sleep pretty soundly at night.

Third, a couple of people have questioned the specificity of this post (though believe me, it could have been *much* more specific). That line of thinking goes: personal laundry (mine, or commenters) shouldn't get aired on a blog. Sometimes, that point of view is just wrong. Sometimes, a blog is precisely the best place to name names. I received enough nastygrams and I sent enough of them, back in my earlier career, to know that you get what you pay for, and you usually deserve it. The genius of the blogosphere is that nastygram recipients now have a choice beyond (i) caving and (ii) hiring an expensive lawyer. Also, and more important, I believe that Blog-Lebo's readers deserve an explanation as to why the plug was pulled yesterday.

Anonymous said...

This is absolutely unbelievable. Mt. Lebanon has had a reputation for its residents acting like they were better than other people. It's a real crying shame that some residents found it necessary to threaten legal action against their fellow residents.

This blog enabled me to keep in touch with my community and stay current on events and issues facing our town. Something like this makes me ashamed of being from Mt. Lebanon and makes me want to move out of here. Maybe those outsiders are right.

Anonymous said...

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."

Albert Einstein

Mr. Madison, please reconsider!

Anonymous said...

Illegitimi non carborundum Mike! With all the support expressed here I hope you seriously reconsider.

In an effort to help those of us in need of a blog lebo fix, I've set up a temporary yahoo discussion group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lebo-Talk. Only those who join can see the posts, anyone can start a thread....thick skin preferred, hypersensitivy prohibited.

The hope is it will be rendered outmoded by the re-emergence of Blog Lebo.

Anonymous said...

I understand you not wanting to spend your free time fighting annoyances like this, but it seems a shame and sets a bad precedent. From the comments it seems you are uniquely equipped to handle this situation and not be scared off by lawyers coming after you like us ordinary folks would be. I've got no legal training but if you change your mind and decide to fight and there is grunt work to be done, I'd volunteer to grunt for you. As someone once said, all that it takes for the bad guys to win is for the good guys to stand idly by and do nothing...

Anyway, thanks for all the work you put in on the Lebo blog over the year that I've been eavesdropping.

Best regards,
Lazy but miffed.

Mark Rauterkus said...

You blinked.

Don't bow to bullies.

I would have posted the full letter from the attorney on the web.

Hint: Don't send me any "private messages." I'm in a public endeavor.

Anonymous said...

CREAMED CORN!

Anonymous said...

I hope you will reconsider. Blog Lebo was always full of wonderful information.

Anonymous said...

Reconsider your decision and take a stand. Call their bluff. It's time to take back our Mt. Lebanon.

Jefferson Provost said...

As one of the former BlogLebo contributors, the irony of being lectured to take a stand by anonymous commenters may be the most entertaining aspect of all this.

It's worth noting that suspending BlogLebo was not so much a joint decision as it was the conjunction of individual decisions. Mike indicated in this post that he'll continue to blog about Lebo issues on Pittsblog. As for me, I've already spent far too much time thinking about this in the last 72 hours. My time has expired.

I think that the Lebo-Talk Yahoo group is a great idea, and I don't think it will be all that temporary, frankly. I also think Joe Polk would be a great editor for the Topix Lebo page, but I'm not sure if he's interested. If he doesn't pick it up someone else should volunteer. I've checked out the site, and local editors have the option of writing their own articles, in addition to selecting existing news to be posted, and all articles have space for discussion.

For my part, I have my own blog, that I've been neglecting in favor of BlogLebo lately. If I go back to blogging there, I might even post some Lebo-related things, occasionally. Or not. We'll see.

Anonymous said...

All I keep reading is how sad you all are...how you can't believe this has happened....how you enjoy this blog so much and want it to come back.

The question is...what are YOU going to do to help the situation? Clearly, the authors of this blog made a decision to suspend operations of the blog based upon the hyper litigious society that we live in. Do you think they want to spend their own money defending themselves as a result of something posted on the blog?

Why did Mike, Joe and Jefferson have to be sent a legal document from an attorney regarding this? Why couldn't the homeowners or the attorney himself write an email to all of them -- asking them to take down the posting? If they had told the attorney or homeowner to pound salt, then I could've understood receiving legal documentation threatening litigation about this matter. A simple email would have more than likely lead to the same action that they took -- which was the removal of the posting as requested by the attorney.

This whole incident is a sad state of affairs -- not only for our world but for the state of Mt. Lebanon. Mike, Joe and Jefferson have taken their own time to contribute to this blog with no financial (or any other) benefit from it. See any ads on the blog? See any sponsorship of it? That's right..I didn't think so.

So...you want the blog back? You want to have this web site to go to get your fix of Lebo news? A place to keep in touch with your hometown? Then put your money where your mouth is. Someone suggested a legal defense fund. Go ahead! Start one up. If the authors of the blog are to ever start it up again, they are going to have to figure out how to protect themselves going forward. Maybe this fund that has been suggested could help in that manner.

What else can you do to help this matter? How about going to a municipal commission meeting? How about talking to your commissioner one on one and telling him or her what you think about this situation? They clearly know about it and read it -- as evidenced by John Daley's latest posting.

All I've read in these 34 comments thus far (except for the 1 negative one) is how much you all have enjoyed the blog and want to see it continue. I've enjoyed it too. The question is what are YOU going to do to bring it back and stop something like this from happening again to such a great community resource.

Anonymous said...

Looks like the thought police have won again! See a pattern here? If the powers-that-be don't like something they just shut you up.

Can't see the video - it's evidence. Don't like what someone says - sue! Sorry to see you go.

Anonymous said...

Previous Blogger, I previously contributed $100 to the Marge Sable defense fund and it was like throwing money out the window........

Anonymous said...

I will miss Blog Lebo, and I think it is unfortunate that the whole path debate was blown this far out of whack. The letter that Mike received was an overreaction by a good lawyer, who probably took the whole thing much too personally because his daughter was his client.

However, I'm also concerned that some of my fellow neighbors believe that Art Stroyd is part of the "thought police" or the "powers that be". He's a lawyer who wrote a letter for a client. Nothing more, nothing less. Its not some giant Lebo conspiracy to silence Blog Lebo using Art as its mouthpiece.

There are plenty of defenses for Mike et al in response to the letter. Unfortunately, like any business that receives a letter like Art's, they must weigh the risks, rewards, costs and benefits of raising those defenses in order to maintain the status quo. 95% of all lawsuits and disputes settle, not because one side is all right and the other is all wrong, but because the costs are significant and the drain on one's mental well being is equally taxing. I tell my cliets that regardless of how right you think you are, going to court is always a LAST resort.

Don't think that Mike has allowed himself to be pushed around. And don't believe that he took the easy way out. The decision to fight or not to fight is never easy in the litigation realm. Instead, believe as I do that Mike made the decision based on what was best for him, his family, his employer, his bank account, his neighbors, and his personal sanity. And it is not fair for us to question this decision siiting at home in front of our laptops.

Anonymous said...

I guess they didn't want to hear what their neighbors concerns were about the issue.

Seems like they have more time and money to argue your point.

I hate to see people bullied out of a great service

Schultz said...

My two cents.....

BlogLebo could and should live on through another blog, but in order to succeed the new blog must be centered on Mt Lebanon. Other blogs on broader topics like Pittsblog or JP's blog, won't work as a viable substitute. Community forums or message boards like Yahoo or Topix just aren't the same as a community focused blog.

I would recommend that Mike, Joe, and JP, if they wish to no longer run BlogLebo, hand the keys over to another group of local bloggers. Who is going to step up?

Also, I would recommend that Anonymous posting be turned off on the next edition of BlogLebo. The anonymous cheapshots on BlogLebo comments were pretty lame, not to mention cowardly.

I'm running two blogs right now but after election day I should have time to help contribute to a new Mt Lebo blog.

Of course, my wife and I do not have children, so I doubt that most Mt Lebanites care for what I have to say.

Anonymous said...

Don't let them crush a valued resource. Stay the course. :)

Anonymous said...

As a sometime commentor, I am sorry to see bloglebo suspendend. You guys were a great resource for the community.

If anyone is interested, I have created a Mt. Lebo blog at
htttp://www.mtlebo.net

It is open to anyone who wishes to register and post. Just be civil.

Michael

Anonymous said...

Having grown up outside of the Great State of Mt. Lebanon,(gasp!! Whitehall!!) and having lived in many communities is Western PA, I came to settle in MtL in 1981. In that time I have done my best to dispel the myth that MtL is composed of thin-skinned elitists. I have parried with non-MtLers about top 25 lists, mysterious superintendant disappearances, bike paths that would impeded landscapers and Little Leagers arriving in limousines, just to recall a few. Through it all I have tried to maintain that most Mt. Lebanese are decent folk, who despite having earned upper middle class economic status, nonetheless respect the rights of others despite that fact that a small cadre insist on acting otherwise. I have spent many an evening in homes throughout the community discussing differences of opinion with people with whom I disagree. Without fail I have come away from these discusssions with a better understanding of my neighbors and my community. The Lebo blog provided another source for that interaction. (While I do not approve of anonymous postings, that is the advantage of cyberspace.) The loss of the blog is disturbing on both ends. First, that those that feel offended would threaten legal action rather than engage in civil discourse; and secondly that those who felt it important enough to start the blog would shut down the entire operation over a single incident. I'm sure that there is much more to this tham meets the eye,( there always is in the Great State) but that's how I feel.
Bob Sebastian

Joe Polk said...

A HUGE thank you to all who posted their comments on Pittsblog in support of Blog-Lebo. Mike and I have discussed this issue in length and have decided to re-start the blog . We're glad to have such great support in and out of our community and we hope that with some new rules in place, we can continue to provide you with the great community resource that Blog-Lebo has become.

Anonymous said...

it is true, most of the residents have met are kinda uppity:(